the_pirate_show ([info]the_pirate_show) wrote,
@ 2009-03-30 11:04:00
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Of Dungeoning and Dragoning
I've played Dungeons and Dragons since 2nd Edition (also known by its nerdier title, "Advanced Dungeons And Dragons"). I've mucked around in loads of other roleplaying games as well, and enjoyed most of them, but D&D has a special place in my heart. It's always provided me with the most entertaining characters and memorable moments. I know certain people have a real hate-on for d20-based games, and I understand why- the ubiquity of that rules system led a lot of companies to simply produce new contexts for the d20 rules rather than design something new and innovative. This is sad partially just for the loss of new stuff that might have been, but also because d20 isn't a good approach for most settings or genres. But does a better job than anything else I've tried at telling heroic Tolkeinesque fantasy stories, and that's what D&D is about.

When Wizards Of The Coast (WOTC) released the game's fourth edition last year, there was a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of nerds suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. Said nerds had spent hojillions of dollars on books for the previous edition of the game, books that had superseded and outclassed each other to the point that very little of the game's original material was relevant or competitive any more. The game was a bit of an unwieldy mess of addendums and exceptions, and dozens of sourcebooks with different design approaches meant that hundreds of new rules could interact with each other in some truly stupid ways. This isn't to say that there wasn't fun to be found in the game's third edition (and its bastard stepchild, 3.5), it's just that as players you had to work to find that fun. In any case, the concern upon the fourth edition's publication seemed to be that WOTC would be coming to nerdly burrows everywhere and pilfering the now-obselete books, which clearly hasn't happened. Lots of folks are still happily playing 3.5, and many others have moved on to Fourth Edition. Like me.

I'm currently running a game for a group of my friends, and I honestly believe the new edition is the best thing that's happened to the game. This is for lots of reasons, but most of them come back to one thing: the game, for the first time, has been approached by the designers as a game rather than a simulation. As much as roleplaying games are about group storytelling, they don't need to match up to reality as long as they're internally consistent. As the Dungeon Master, I don't care about verisimilitude, I care if my players are having a good time. With the new edition, we've yet to have to forage through sourcebooks and crunch heady rules in order to find the fun. Moreover, everything the player characters do has the feel of epic fantasy heroics, in which realism has very little place. That sounds like good game design to me.

Last weekend, I had a brief meeting with a group of gamers who were looking for another player for their D&D 3.5 game. I still own the relevant books, and I don't dislike the system- and in any case, the most important thing about a roleplaying game is the people playing it. Good gamers can have a great time with a mediocre system, and socially inept pedantic nerd-tards can ruin anything if they try hard enough. This particular group had a firm handle on the latter. Without boring you with too many obscure details of in-game rules mechanics, they seemed to get off on ranting about how unrealistic the new edition is. Heck, even 3.5 required a number of extremely odd house rules to bring it up to their standard of verisimilitude. I bowed out, for two reasons: Firstly, I'm irritated by the notion of adding more and more context-specific rules in order to model reality more accurately in your roleplaying game- it makes the game less like a game and more like a simulator, which isn't fun for me. And secondly, I was about to turn bright crimson and break out ranting until cartoon steam shot out my ears. Because:

-If you want a game that's realistic, why play a heroic fantasy game at all? Someone has surely published 'Houses And Humans', in which you struggle through a day job before returning home to your family. Someone has to change little Bobby's diaper? Roll for initiative!

-D&D gets lots of the details wrong when it does attempt to model historical stuff. Splint mail and banded mail armour were of limited historical relevance, but they show up all the time in D&D. Rapiers had no martial combat application- NONE. There's no such thing as 'plate mail' armour. The list goes on, but even the mundane details don't support a simulationist approach.

-Who even cares if the goblin warrior's armour is historically cromulent? IT IS ON A FRIGGING GOBLIN. Any arguments about what would be 'realistic' stop right there.

-Fourth edition, unlike 3.5, supports balance- a twentieth-level wizard, for example, is exactly as powerful in his own way as a twentieth-level fighter, simply because the players have more fun that way. Complaints that a wizard should 'obviously', in a realistic system, be more powerful than a swordsman of comparable experience, simply because wizards are magical and fighters are relying on talent and skill, are ludicrous. You want realism? Great. THERE ARE NO GODDAMN WIZARDS.

The list goes on, but the long and the short of it is this: why do some nerds give us socially functional nerds a bad name? Why the condescension towards gamers who 'just' want to have fun, tell a cool story, or enjoy a game for what it is?



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[info]schonste
2009-03-30 04:26 pm UTC (link)
Ugh I could just. Make out with you for this. Putting up with people complaining about 4.0 because of ridiculous, stupid reasons has turned me into a bitter old man. But 4.0 is fun [even if some of the new races are painfully twinky and you have to buy two players handbooks, but WHATEVER] and simple to learn for ye olde schoole tabletop gamers and newcomers. When I head back to college I'm gonna run a 4.0 game and I've been planning it out, and it's fun and easy. I just. Argh. Want to strangulate some people.

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[info]the_pirate_show
2009-03-30 04:51 pm UTC (link)
Having bought a fair stack of the additional books, I can promise you that you don't need them. They've all got good stuff, mind you, and they're worth having, but they do about the same job as the 3.5 additional PHBs and DMGs. You can have a perfectly fun game with nothing but the three core books, though some of the PHB2 classes are completely awesome (wild magic sorceror FTW!).

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[info]schonste
2009-03-30 05:34 pm UTC (link)
I need phb2 though, Bard is my fav class. :<

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[info]the_pirate_show
2009-03-30 05:36 pm UTC (link)
They did a kickass job on the bard. It's worth picking up just for the new arcane classes.

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[info]littlehoudini
2009-03-30 05:08 pm UTC (link)
I haven't played AD&D since junior high, and that's a damn long time ago. Nonetheless, I agree with everything you've said here. It's a fantasy game, damnit - let there be fantasy, and games should be about fun.

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[info]the_pirate_show
2009-03-30 05:19 pm UTC (link)
Your pragmatic head would have exploded from talking to these guys. The arrogance, the condescension, and the general assumption that they 'get it' would have been infuriating if it hadn't been so utterly pathetic.

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[info]monkeyofshaolin
2009-03-30 09:19 pm UTC (link)
Scotty, your LJ has pretty much summed up why I have never played D&D. It has always sounded like too much of a hassle because of all the rules and regulations that end up being a mess to deal with. Plus, I used to be in the U of T gaming club, and watching people play D&D made my mind explode. Ranting, arguing, and general nerd Hell was seen every week at Vic College. No fun was ever had, as far as I could tell. Well, at least in terms of my definition of fun.

I'm one of those people out there who play games for fun. I mean, that's what games are for! Fun! Some people seem to have lost sight of that, and it's unfortunate.

I applaud you for bowing out.

Anyway, if you ever have room for someone who is interested in playing casually and has no clue how to actually play, (or if you still wanna paint miniature toy fantasy figures of coolness) give me a call. I'd love playing with people who won't yell at me for thinking plate-mail and a tutu on an orc holding a Kitana is kinda cool in a hilarious way.

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[info]the_pirate_show
2009-03-30 09:30 pm UTC (link)
We are currently at the absolute capacity of what I can sanely run, but come the summer I'm thinking of starting a second campaign, and you'll be in for sure. The rules are simple enough that you can easily do (or at least attempt) whatever you want in-game, and figuring out how won't be hard.

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[info]monkeyofshaolin
2009-03-30 09:39 pm UTC (link)
Sounds like it would be lots of fun. Anything I need to pick up, like books or something, if I were to join you in the summer?

When you said "can easily do (or at least attempt) whatever", I was immediately reminded of the D&D audio parody I heard many years ago. "Can I have a Mountain Dew?" / "Why are you casting Magic Missile? There's nothing to attack here?" "I'm attacking the darkness."

Anyway, I'm starting on some Space Marines. Don't know if they'll end up any good. I'm the slightly impatient type. Ha ha. How long would it take to paint a decent Space Marine? Oh, and would blow-drying the figures (from about a foot and a half away) after applying a coat of paint help with drying quicker or just ruin things?

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[info]the_pirate_show
2009-03-30 10:00 pm UTC (link)
All you'd need is the Player's Handbook. At your option, there are a bunch more classes and races in Player's Handbook 2, but you need the main one as it's the actual rules reference.

The best thing you can do with Space Marines (or anything involving big flat surfaces) is get some fluffy, soft makeup brushes. They'll lay down really smooth layers of drybrushed highlights, and your figures will look awesome. I don't know about the blow-dryer thing, but I suspect it might make the paint dry a bit uneven and lumpy. Work on a bunch of figures at a time, like an assembly line, and #1 will be dry by the time you've done the same thing to #5.

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[info]desertkitton
2009-03-31 12:00 am UTC (link)
I have heard 4E referred to as "D&D for 10 year olds". I must be a 10 year old because after four years of playing 3.5 I still couldn't fucking figure out what did and did not cause an attack of opportunity, and after only 10 months of 4E I would call myself a more than proficient player. The difference between me and the (mostly older male) players, I guess, is that for me playing D&D is about fun, imagination, collective storytelling, socializing and drinking - and for them it's about being a rules-lawyer so one can feel important while one leads one's otherwise meaningless life.

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[info]the_pirate_show
2009-03-31 01:11 pm UTC (link)
The first session I played showed me all about how sophisticated the new system is. A student of almost any other games can tell you that challenging game design lies in the meaningful interaction of a finite number of similarly-principled mechanics, not in a multitude of exceptions and oddities that become simply an exercise in memorization and debate. A good ruleset, like 4E, sits in the background and stays out of the way of the story.

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[info]erikochan
2009-03-31 02:53 am UTC (link)
Are there pirates in this version, at least? :)

I think I played D&D once or twice when I was about 11. I think I lacked the attention span then, and probably still do. ^^; I liked the cool dice though. I think someone gave me a purple d20 for a present once.

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[info]the_pirate_show
2009-03-31 01:14 pm UTC (link)
There can be pirates, and you're not the first to ask. I can, off the top of my head, think of three different classes that could stand in for different piratey archetypes. I'm thinking my next campaign will cast the players as pirates, maybe of the airship variety.

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[info]rocketbox
2009-03-31 05:59 pm UTC (link)
You'd be a fantastic DM!

Know of any games looking for players? Our last DM flaked and we are without our weekly fix...

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[info]the_pirate_show
2009-03-31 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Aw, shucks! I think I do a pretty solid job, and the group of non-actors that I guest-DMed for a couple of weeks ago thought I was a magical superbeing, just 'cause I'm not afraid to play the parts.

I don't know of anything, but Dueling Grounds or Hairy T might be able to hook you up. I may be putting out the call for a second game in June, once my show's done.

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